Now on to the whole Kimmel fiasco…

A meeting this afternoon at a Century City law office between ABC’s Jimmy Kimmel and Disney’s top TV executive, Dana Walden, ended without a resolution of the standoff that has engulfed both sides in one of the rare Hollywood political and business blow-ups that makes headlines worldwide. Disney suspended Jimmy Kimmel Live! after its host refused to tone down a planned response to the backlash over his Monday comment that “the MAGA gang” was trying to characterize the alleged shooter of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk as “anything other than one of them.” Trump’s F.C.C. quickly pounced, as did two ABC-affiliated station groups, and Disney benched the show to try to figure out a path back that will satisfy the government, the station groups and advertisers that want to appease the government, and both its star host and the creative community that has revolted in anger at the infringement on free speech.

A lot happening, so I asked my colleague Kim Masters to join me for a back-and-forth on what’s going on behind the scenes; the stakes for Disney, Hollywood, and all of the media; and a possible path to a resolution…

Matt Belloni: Let’s start with what’s going on now. I’m gonna assume everyone knows the background: the initial pants-wetting at Disney over the backlash to Kimmel’s comment; the heated back-and-forth over how to address the situation between Kimmel and, at first, ABC’s late-night executive Rob Mills, then the Disney TV division chief Dana Walden; Kimmel’s insistence on delivering an on-air clarification that Walden and her team thought would inflame tensions and further jeopardize Disney’s station licenses and other business; and the ultimate decision by Walden and C.E.O. Bob Iger to suspend the show “indefinitely.”

Kim Masters: Don’t forget the swift global backlash to that suspension.

Matt: Yes, several sources told me the severity and breadth of the reaction caught Disney by surprise. (Although… really? Seemed pretty predictable to me.) I’m also seeing a lot of variations on this comment, from one of my blue check followers on Twitter/X: “The people who cheered on Parler being banned, Tucker Carlson being fired, Roseanne being fired, & half the country being shadowbanned or suspended are upset the pendulum is in full swing.”

Kim: Yes, totally comparable situation—if Jimmy Kimmel routinely lied and repeated white-nationalist talking points. And none of those examples resulted from government pressure.

Matt: So today inside Disney has basically been about, How do we bring Kimmel back—and is that even possible, given the affiliate revolt after F.C.C. Chair Brendan Carr put the company on blast? This afternoon, Jimmy met Walden and Mills at the Century City office of his lawyer, Andy Galker, and was joined via Zoom by his manager, James Dixon, who has been backchanneling with the Disney people. (Dixon, who also reps Stephen Colbert, has had a very busy few months.) I’m told the meeting was cordial but ended this evening without Kimmel agreeing to do more than what he wanted to say on Monday—a monologue that a Disney source characterized as “not helping the situation.” According to this source, the prepared statement clarified his earlier comment and emphasized that he never believed the alleged Kirk killer was MAGA, but also attacked Fox News by name, right-wingers on social media, and others who Kimmel believes dishonestly mischaracterized his comment to fan the flames of outrage. Disney thought that went too far.

Kim: But let’s get to the unprecedented nature of what is happening. We’re at a point where the chairman of the F.C.C. is making it crystal clear that he will use the levers of federal power to silence critics. He already backed Trump in essentially extorting a payoff before approving the Skydance-Paramount deal. And media companies have started complying in advance. Even MSNBC ran scared and fired commentator Matthew Dowd—before anyone of note had even uttered a word of criticism of his remarks.

Matt: Don’t get me wrong, threatening to pull ABC’s licenses over jokes or news the president doesn’t like is almost certainly a content-based restriction on speech, which the Supreme Court has historically deemed unconstitutional. A Biden-era case filed by Republican states over social media bans was ultimately dismissed on other grounds. But in that ruling, the court reaffirmed the First Amendment rules that would likely apply to Kimmel and ABC. Even Samuel Alito wrote that “government officials may not coerce private entities to suppress speech.” And as Politico noted today, less than a month before that case, a unanimous court ruled that the First Amendment “prohibits government officials from relying on the ‘threat of invoking legal sanctions and other means of coercion … to achieve the suppression of disfavored speech.”

Sounds exactly like what’s going on here. But we can talk about Carr overstepping, or about Trump’s increasingly punitive approach to the media, or the fact that Texas-based Nexstar, the first affiliate group to pull Jimmy Kimmel Live!, is pursuing a $6.2 billion merger with the Tegna stations that must be blessed by the F.C.C. All typical of third-world authoritarian regimes, not a country that cared enough about freedom of speech to put it up top in the Bill of Rights.

But… let’s focus on Disney, its leadership, and whether there is an escape from this mess. First off, I’m not sure the Kimmel situation would have happened if Iger hadn’t first agreed to pay Trump $16 million to settle the very winnable George Stephanopoulos litigation at ABC News. Maybe Trump’s agenda was preordained, but bullies tend to be emboldened when they get what they want, and Iger should have known that—a big judgment error. And, shocker: Carr is now talking about going after ABC’s The View, and today Trump floated revoking licenses of all broadcasters that are “against” him. It’s pretty insane. Iger’s name is on the new ABC News building in New York. His wife is the dean of a journalism school. And now his legacy is at risk.

Kim: One of my shrewdest Disney sources had this to say when I asked whether he was surprised that Iger decided to pull Kimmel off the air: “Surprised by what? Bend the knee once and you will be on all fours in no time.” We’ve been watching one media company after another yield, but history will remember that Disney went first.

I know Iger has framed the ABC News settlement as arising from his concern that the litigation might have provided Trump with a vehicle to undermine New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, which provides critical protections to journalists like us. Given the way the majority has been ruling, the Supreme Court might have done that. But ever since, we’ve seen the consequences of capitulation. Maybe Paramount would still have paid Trump to get the Skydance deal cleared, or CBS would have abruptly canceled Colbert anyway, or David Ellison would still be poised to throw CBS News under the bus, but arguably Disney gave permission, and with this latest move, has taken things to a point that won’t be forgotten.

Matt: And shocked the Hollywood community, of course. Hundreds of writers and actors protested outside Disney today. The guilds have put out blistering statements, and I’m told planning is afoot for more protests next week. Damon Lindelof, the star writer-producer, vowed to stop working with the company that made his Lost if Kimmel isn’t reinstated, and I’ve heard others are considering a similar move. And the politicians are just starting to get involved.

Kim: Still, I haven’t seen others jump in behind Lindelof. There are layers of fear in Hollywood now: fear arising from upheaval in the industry and an overall lack of work, and very real fear of retaliation from the right for those who speak out. Sadly, people need physical courage to take a stand.

Matt: Yeah, does any of this guild outrage matter? Unclear. A SAG-AFTRA do-not-work order against Disney would certainly get Iger’s attention, but the guild’s no-strike clause in its collective bargaining agreement prohibits that absent a breach of contract, which is not present here. (Plus, I’m told everyone on Jimmy Kimmel Live! is getting paid during the shutdown.) Maybe if James Cameron or the Avengers refused to promote their movies, Disney would feel a financial hit from its decision—remember, a lot of big stars are buds with Kimmel.

Kim: I don’t know about Jon Favreau’s politics, but he and, say, Steve Martin and Martin Short of Hulu’s Only Murders in the Building, or the cast of ABC’s Abbott Elementary—tons of talent could have an impact by speaking out.

Matt: Kimmel has actually been pretty close with Iger and Walden.

Kim: Yes. And some are seeing this rift in terms of personal betrayal. “Sat four seats over from Bob at Jimmy and Molly’s wedding,” one texted me. “This business, man.” Another longtime Disney watcher told me, “He was so many faces of Disney—Millionaire, Oscar hosting—then you get shanked by Bob?” I noted Kimmel’s years-long service as the highlight of the TV upfronts. “I mean, c’mon,” this person responded, adding, “What a fucking stain. Will haunt Iger to the grave.”

Matt: Kimmel isn’t blameless here. His show is taped, with a scripted monologue. This isn’t a Politically Incorrect situation where Bill Maher made an off-the-cuff comment that the 9/11 terrorists weren’t “cowards.” Even if he didn’t mean to link the shooter to MAGA, either Jimmy or someone else at Kimmel probably should have recognized the sensitivity of the Kirk discourse and at least retaped that part of the monologue to eliminate ambiguity about what he was saying.

Kim: Hindsight is 20/20. But regardless, he was never callous about Kirk—quite the opposite—and this was in no way a firing offense.

Matt: Agreed. So if I were Iger and Walden, and I believed that how Kimmel wanted to respond on the air would inflame an already bad situation, I would have tried to tone it down as much as possible but ultimately let Kimmel deliver his own monologue. And then if the backlash did indeed grow, and the station groups and advertisers refused to return, then I would’ve yanked the show and said publicly, “We love Jimmy and wish he had handled this better, but we can’t continue without stations or advertisers.” And that would be that. Now, instead, it’s Disney in the hot seat, not just Kimmel. And it’s the entire talent community united in opposition.

Kim: I doubt that would have been the end of it, though. I don’t know what Jimmy wanted to say, but I’m confident that while it may have been pointed, it would not have been crazy. He has strong opinions, sure, but that’s his right and it’s not a surprise to anyone—though I’m told his insistence on doing political material has long grated on Iger and the network. You simply cannot yank Jimmy Kimmel off the air and claim the high ground. That’s especially true when you have Colbert gone, and the Ellisons apparently planning to lay Bari Weiss on CBS News, and the head of the F.C.C. talking like Tony Soprano and going after The View, for Christ’s sake, and the administration explicitly calling for the heads of Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyers.

Matt: I do know Seth has been freaking out over this.

Kim: I hear that Dana Walden is pretty shook, too. But let’s be fair. From a business perspective, this is a very tough one for Disney, with the affiliates bailing. And of course, both Nexstar and Sinclair also have deals pending before the F.C.C., so they have their own pressures, not to mention their own conservative views.

Matt: And the tensions and money disputes between the networks and stations are more heated these days than in the heyday of linear TV when everyone was making more money.

Kim: Maybe Iger could have threatened to pull all ABC programming from them, but that’s a scary game of chicken and if they didn’t blink, you just killed your network. Still, deplatforming Kimmel was never going to be met with a shrug.

Matt: Hopefully, Disney can thread the needle here and come up with a way to address the issue on the show that will appease the stations and advertisers, and also make Kimmel comfortable to continue doing the show. He’s talked for years about retirement, and there’s no point coming back if he’s just going to run afoul of Carr and the conservative cancel culture again in a couple weeks. That’s what they are talking about now.

Kim: That’s likely to happen, so I’m not sure there’s a world where Kimmel returns. I will also mention the sneaking suspicion that I’m hearing around town: If Dana shows she’s willing to appease the Trump regime by being tough on Kimmel, does that make it safer for Disney to make her C.E.O. despite her friendship with Kamala Harris?

Matt: It’s funny you say that. I had Bill Carter on my podcast today, and he said if Dana can manage this situation effectively, it would be an excellent argument for her to be C.E.O. And if not…

Kim: If Walden were promoted, you can imagine not just the D.E.I. talk from the administration, but the whole “Disney is woke” thing starting up again.

Matt: And maybe more punishments.

Kim: If anyone is enjoying this debacle, it has to be Bob Chapek. Remember, in February 2022, on the day that the Florida House of Representatives passed the so-called “Don’t Say Gay” bill, Iger—then unhappily retired—tweeted his support of Biden’s statement condemning the legislation. Iger labeled it a “hateful bill” that would “put vulnerable, young LGBTQ people in jeopardy.” I immediately asked Disney whether then-C.E.O. Chapek would also take a stand. His spokesperson, the unlamented Geoff Morrell, responded that Chapek “does not bring any partisan agenda to work” and that the best way to build a more inclusive world was through “inspiring content.” The staff revolted and Chapek then went through a prolonged and awkward flip-flop as Iger signaled to the board that Chapek clearly wasn’t fit to run Disney.

Matt: How times have changed.

Kim: That same Iger spoke out against Trump’s Muslim ban in 2017, and withdrew from a presidential advisory council, citing “a matter of principle” after the Trump administration pulled out of the Paris climate accords. He’s now bent both knees. These are grim times.

See you Monday,
Matt

Maya Tribbitt contributed research for today’s issue.

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